Monday Morning Survey II
I REALLY appreciate all of the amazing feedback I got from last week’s survey (which you can still address if you haven’t already). THANK YOU. You make me feel very loved.
I knew I had a diverse readership, so I wasn’t surprised so much about the differences of opinion as I was about how thorough and well expressed the diverse opinions were.
Please consider answering today’s survey. I’m researching public opinion for a post I’m writing for April 1st at Seeds of Faith.
Here is scenario number two.
Your daughter is 20. Joe is her long-term boyfriend. You love Joe and his parents love your daughter.
Your daughter is in her second year of community college and is now being pressed for a major. She finally comes to you and declares with much sincerity that she has no desire to continue college. She has no desire to pursue a career, feels it is foolish to continue to continue accumulating debt in the form of student loans educating herself for a career she has no intention to pursue, and that she and Joe just want to get married right away instead of waiting two more years.
Joe shares your family’s values. He is in college, majoring in a career field which should provide well for your daughter and grandchildren, and consistently on the Dean’s list.
Here is the question:
What is your reaction to your daughter’s decision? Please be honest.
Hallee
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I was in this young ladies shoes 18 years ago so I can certainly feel her feelings!
Now as a parent, how would I react? I would strongly encourage her & Joe to fervantly seek God’s will and promise to be praying right along with them. If they truly feel God’s direction then I would whole heartedly support them.
I did give up college and get married. It was the best decision I could have made simply because it was God’s will. I felt God’s call on my life to be a wife and mother around 13 years of age so I knew I was right where I was suppose to be and God has abundantly blessed me with His faithfulness!
Well, I think I would still have some concerns about not finishing college first, but I think those come out of my own preconceptions about needing to have a degree to fall back on should anything happen to Joe. It sounds like she’s really thought this through, and it sounds like Joe is in a good situation to provide for her. I’d be interested in knowing how he planned to provide for her while he was still finishing school, especially if she were to get pregnant before he was finished. But overall, I think I would be supportive and happy for her.
I would definitely support her in her decision wholeheartedly. Then I would breathe a sigh of relieve and say a prayer of thanksgiving that she didn’t continue on in debt, etc, when she had no desire to be there.
When our daughter was young we never pushed nor detracted from getting a college education. We wanted her to follow God’s calling on her life. (Neither of us are college educated.) We were surprised when she decided to go to college, then transferred to nursing school after the first semester – even moreso when she married two years later. She will finish school in May with a husband and almost one-year-old attending the graduation. (He will finish his major in a year and a half.) Though those were not MY plans for her, they are the plans God had for her. It’s hard as parents to step back and let our adult children make their own decisions. We want to protect them and control the situation as we did when they were our babies. God quickly taught me that I am not in control, never have been, never will be and I’m thankful for that! They learn from their own experiences and mistakes. If we’re there to try and prevent those mistakes from happening, then we can be interfering in God’s plans for their growth.
Sorry to rattle on, but wanted to share a little of what I’ve learned in this ongoing march of motherhood.
*a sigh of relief. Sorry.
So I answered last week’s poll with the idea that maybe you should push your friend to consider college but really, since she’s your friend you should respect her choices. With a DAUGHTER it is entirely different. In general, I don’t like passing judgment on people’s life choices (even when asked), but I would have no scruples having a frank conversation with my child about her options. Getting a BA is crucial for ever getting a job and if Joe (who sounds lovely) really loves her, he’ll push her to finish school.
Plus, while I never say never, this scenario doesn’t seem likely to happen to me and my husband. We were both raised in households that were incredibly supportive of college (I grew up listening to stories of how much my parents loved the experience) and we were strongly encouraged to succeed academically. What did God give us brains for, if not to inquire into the mysteries of the world around us? I can’t imagine raising a daughter who would hate learning and have so little care for her financial/professional future as to want to drop out of college. However, if this did happen, my husband and I would strongly encourage (if not try to impel) her to finish. College is of course hard sometimes, but that’s one of the things that makes it so incredibly worth while.
I guess I’m the same place as last week. I would encourage her to follow her heart. If she really didn’t want to finish college, I would have to support her.
Insist upon her finishing her education. Marry Joe if she must (try to get her to delay a year at least). Get her in contact with someone like me, who married a man with all my family’s values, had a great job, on the dean’s list, etc–appeared to be the perfect man–but yet after 13 years of marriage, ran off with his analyst. Explain to her that being a homemaker, wife and mother are all very important but she cannot possibly anticipate what the world will hand her. No one can ever take away her education and her degree. Two years is nothing to finish what she has started (her degree) and buy herself insurance against her husband’s possible illness, infidelity, or death. INSIST! Then love her no matter what decision she makes.
Amy – It is good to hear of someone else who has felt led to be a wife & mom at an early age. I cannot ever remember not wanting to be those things and prayed for it with my whole being especially during my tumultuous teenage years. At age 16, God placed my husband in my path and I knew with no uncertainty at all that he was the person God had chosen for me. We were married when I was 19 and he was 21.
We have been married for over 21 years now and blessed with 6 amazing children. I am positive that this was God’s will for my life.
I think I would likely keep the same reply from last week.
If I was certain that my daughter was confident in her choice, I would support her. I likely would broach many topics of how hard life can be and give her plenty of examples, but in the end, it would always be her choice (as it was mine back in 1989).
Let’s face it…life is uncertain and there are no guarantees in anything. Being happy and fulfilled is the ultimate goal. I am a firm believer in God providing what we need, when we need it and it has been a theme repeated over and over in my own life so I cannot help, but believe. :)
I am living this now. I have three daughters, 22, 22, and 21. Only one is in college. I know from experience if an adult child wants to do something, you can’t stop them. If they chose to leave the nest and make their own choices, then I have no say in those choices. I would say what I thought, pray with them, and leave it in God’s hands. LIfe is not always the one we have planned in our head, especially the plans we have for our children. I am struggling with letting my adult children go to live the lives they have chosen, that don’t follow my plans for them, and that are not what I feel to be the lives they were raised to lead, the lives God has planned for them.
If she were to finish her AA/ AS, I’d be okay with it, honestly. I’d suggest she consider earning her BA/BS in the event of Joe getting injurred, or dying or somehow being unable to provide for the family, forcing her into the workforce. A BA/BS would make it easier for her to get a good job, but an AA/ AS would still be a degree and open her to more job oportunities (if she needs them).
This is a much different situation than the sitation last week. The growth between 18 and 20 is HUGE. At 20, I’d feel more confident in her decision making.
I would direct them to church for guidance in their plans and give them my blessing. I can understand wanting to be a mom and not wanting to rack up student loan debt.
If I could afford to pay for her to complete the remaining 2 years of school, I would. I really do place an enormous amount of value on a college education. I think that even if all of her hopes and dreams come true (marry Joe, raise children, etc.) that there is value in her having a college education as a foundation for her role as a wife and mother.
That being said, if I couldn’t afford to pay for the remainder of her school, I would support her decision. I think that at age 20 she is an adult who is making an informed decision. (The rational argument about the wastefullness of accruining additional debt for an education she doesn’t want is logical enough for me to give her credit for having thought this through somewhat.) I would, however, first have a discussion with her about the fact that she is free to marry Joe while still obtaining a degree. If she was unwilling to do that, I would suggest that she complete whatever units necessary to convert her two years of schooling into an Associate’s Degree (so she has something to show for the time put in).
“What did God give us brains for if not to inquire into the world around us” Cara, this is exactly the sentiment I was trying to express, but not nearly as eloquently as you did. I truely think that we owe it to ourselves to develop our minds, regardless of the pursuits we intend to follow.
I would strongly encourage her to complete her degree. She will learn so much about life and about herself by finishing college. It will make her a better wife and mother. I don’t know what kind of degree she is working on, but a degree in education, health, nutrition, finance, etc, would be a tremendous asset to her future family, even if she never has to use it in ‘the real world’. As others have pointed out, there are any number of unfortunate situations that might force her into the job market, and that would be a bad time to find out how crucial a college degree is to finding a good job. Two years might seem like a long time, but it’s really not. There is no reason they can’t get engaged and start planning the wedding now, so that when she graduates, they will be ready to start their life together. I hope this helps.
I was her. I am her.
Growing up the “plan” was always high school, then college. I didn’t know there were other options because that’s what I was told, that’s what my friends were told.
I had 5 semesters of college before I quit and started my family. For years, I knew I’d eventually finish my degree. But now? I don’t want to. I want to stay at home with our children, I want us to own a home, and paying for college would not allow for that.
I know I’m smart. I know I could do it. But I don’t want to. It’s not important to me anymore.
Would I encourage my children to attend and finish college? Of course.
Do I think the only way to success is with a college degree? No. Not at all.
The advice I’d give my sons (or daughter) is to do what makes you happy. If that’s college, do it. But do it well. If it’s starting a family… Do that. And do it with love. If working at McD’s makes you happy? By all means, flip those hamburgers and serve them with a smile.
I’d want to know why she and Joe are in such a rush to get married. 20 is still terribly young, in my opinion. I’d also want to know if she had prayed about and what she felt the Lord was calling her to do. I would be ok with her not wanting to finish school if she didn’t feel led to. I’d encourage to travel the world, possibly do some missions work. I feel like those early 20’s are such a time of discovering who you are and what/who you want to be. If she really felt that God was calling her to marry Joe right away, then I’d have to respect that. I would want to know how they’d plan to support themselves and any children they might have. I’d want her and Joe to attend premarital counseling with their pastor. And I’d also expect Joe to come to us and ask for our blessing.
The number one thing I would want my daughter to learn out of the situation is comittment. I’d want her to finish what she started. I was in a similar situation, but it was my last year of college. I just wanted to be done and move to another state to be with my fiance and get married. I had to force myself to get through everyday of my last year, and it was worth it. It was such a short amount of time in the scheme of life, and I’m proud to have my degree.
I know too many people who just give up when they get bored, tired, frustrated, etc. It is important to make a decision and then stick with it to the end. I will use that value in all aspects of raising my children. It applies to more than just college, but marriage, jobs, household projects, etc.
I did not feel the “call” to be a wife and mother at an early age, so in all honesty, I have not been in this young woman’s shoes. At age 20, I would encourage my daughter to EARNESTLY seek God’s will. I would encourage finishing college, as one should finish what they start and after all, life is uncertain. But would respect her choice if she truly felt God was calling her on another path.
I do not believe one adult can dictate to another what God’s will for their life is. Parents are not infallible…and children are not perfect. But God will always care for His own.
I would beg her to continue her education. I would explain that the purpose of an education is not to get a job! It is for personal well being. Imo, it is a sin, to stop her education. God’s gifts are not to be wasted.
A family would be a welcome thing. I would offer to help her out as much as possible so that she could do both.
I would pray that she continues her education and raises a wonderful family. I would expect that the extended family would support and help her to their fullest extent.
Again, looking back, I wish I had done that. I honestly can say I have no interest in what I majored in, and it bothers me. I’m paying back on loans for an education I wish I hadn’t done. I’d pray with her and see where we were led from there.
I would tell her Joe probably intends to take care of her but God calls people home at a young age sometimes and he might not be around always. So prepare for the future in a way that if that happens she will not be in a situation where she will have to take any kind of job to support herself and her children or maybe work long hours for low pay and have no time with her children. I think God wants us to help ourselves.
My reaction is Hallelujah! She has been blessed with the opportunity to follow God’s will for godly women at such a young age. She has the opportunity to stand beside a godly man and be his helpmeet, raise up children unto God, and bless countless generations to come, by nurturing, healing, educating, and loving a family. She has the opportunity to grow up, grow wise, and grow old with a man with whom she shares mutual love. I would not fear for her choice of men, because I would have been preparing her to make a wise choice from the time that I first held her in my arms. She will have learned to discriminate among suitors and to participate in the making of wise choices throughout her married life, while being prepared in our home for this very step. I would advise her to undergo some sort of vocational training for a job that is flexible and family friendly, in case something should happen to her husband, unless they can afford enough life and disability insurance to support an entire family from the day after her wedding and for the remainder of her life. Although, this would not actually have been necessary, because if she were my daughter, she would have already accomplished this by her 18th birthday. I would say thanks be to God for this wonderful blessing.
I think I would keep most of the same answer as last week, but as others have pointed out, it is different if it is my daughter or a friend of mine. I would encourage my daughter to seek the Lord’s will with prayer and fasting, both alone and with Joe. Of course, I would pray for her and with her. I would advise her to seek wise counsel, such as from our pastor. I would also applaud her desire not to go (further) into debt (although hopefully my daughter would not be incurring student loan debt, but that is another story). But, no matter what our plans are, they don’t always end up that way. Joe may be able to provide well for her and their children, but what if his career is cut short, such as from an accident or illness? Or worse, what if he died suddenly, and she were left to provide for herself and her children? Those are issues I would want her (and Joe) to be prepared to address if she really did not want to complete her degree. If, after all of that, she still did not want to finish, I would encourage her to at least leave the option open, to complete her degree maybe after Joe graduates and has an income, so there wouldn’t be a debt issue involved. But, at the end of the day, I’d like to think that I would be supportive (praying fervently all the time that God would lead her in HIS path, and give the rest of us peace about it).
I think I would pray with her and for her. I’d spend some time talking with her and my husband. Although I would be perfectly content if she grows up to be a homemaker, and not an employee, I will help her see it is much easier to complete a college degree before having family responsibilities and distractions. There may be a time in her life where she will want or need a job and having that degree will make her more marketable. If she truly feels it is God’s will for her to get married at that point, I would be supportive. I would be proud of her for being in tune enough with God to learn what His will was.
I would encourage my daughter to get married and stop college if she wants too. There is no reason to get herself in debt {if my husband and I are unable to pay for her college}. I married at 18 and was able to go to college and complete my degree, all while knowing I wasn’t going to a specific career outside the home. I use all my education greatly and it will benefit me as a stay at home mom, executive homemaker. The experience of college {even while I was married} was very helpful and I would encourage young ladies to go to college if they have a desire to.
A side note, I think that the reason some would encourage her to get a degree {in order to support herself if her husband divorces her} is wrong. We shouldn’t encourage an ‘escape goat’ for future wives/moms.
I would encourage my daughter to stick with it. If she has gotten through two years, she knows how the system works and has shown that she can do what’s necessary even if she doesn’t love it. She’s in the routine now and it would be easier to continue than to start again later. I would wonder why none of the subjects were catching her interest.
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If they were sure they wanted to get married it wouldn’t bother me that much as long as Joe did not have a problem with finishing his degree on schedule. If they got married I would be willing to help out to keep her in school rather than have her working at a fast food place. Maybe something could be worked out between our family and Joe’s family to keep up whatever support they had been getting.
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If they did get married, I would hope they would wait until at least Joe had his degree before they started having kids. I would hope they would wait until they both had degrees. For the reasons I posted in the first survey I think they should live together for a while as a couple before they started a family.
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Even if they did decide not to wait, it would still be maybe a year before there was a baby, and I would hope my daughter would keep taking classes during that time. I think that would be a more useful thing to do than working at a low paying job if they could afford it.
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If she wanted just to stay at home and be a homemaker, I would worry. My guess is that if Joe had been living at home with his mother’s homemaking he might not appreciate what his wife did but would take it for granted. If she had fantasies about life as a homemaker, as the wife of a busy 20-yr old man, I think she might be disappointed with his response. If he had been living in the dorm or on his own, he might already have his own housekeeping routines in place. And he might not be senstiive to special efforts that she made. (The way some young college man keep their dorm rooms and apartments makes me think that they would be oblivious to the kinds of things a young woman might take pride in if she were into the idea of homemaking as a career.) I suppose she could do volunteer work to keep occupied.
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If she is worried about debt, I would hope she had already figured out what classes she would need to get an associate degree from the community college, and I hope she would have figured out what types of classes were needed at the nearest four year college, and what community college credits were transferable to that college. If she really did not want to keep taking classes full time I would suggest that she keep taking one class at a time. She could be a non-degree student at a four year college and take classes one at a time, or maybe take an online class from the college. Even if she took no classes for a while, her credits would probably be usable for some length of time at the four-year college, and she could find that out. If she needed some types of credits she might be able to get them by taking a CLEP test. So even if she decided not to take a full class load she could keep working on the degree, even after she had a baby, at a pace that might not bother her as much. And maybe if she took one class at a time she would pay for each class as she took it.
Hi! I was actually in this position about a year ago myself. I was going to school to be a teacher and even at a community college I was racking up the debt. I really wanted to be able to homeschool my daughter and put all of my efforts into homemaking. My daughter never went to daycare. We were lucky for my husband to be able to stay with her, but I was not totally present even when I was there. I had school on my mind and when I didn’t my grades & work there showed I was preoccupied. Most of my family thought less of me because I am not ever going to have a college degree (at least I don’t plan on it) but this is where I need to be. I just read Just Do Something by Kevin DeYoung, which was a great, short book. In the end he talks about how Christians are waiting way to long before getting married. Women are feeling like they need to do something & society & many times parents expect college to be the next step in life. So they go, definitely gain knowledge which is great but also rack up debt and spend so much time on school. Then even if they get engaged soon after or during they feel like they 1) need to continue to get their degree 2) need to pay off their debt before marriage or 3) need to do something with their degree afterall they just spent 4+ years on it. So when they really feel like they are to be homemakers and then also sahms they don’t. I think he hit it right on the head with what is going on in our society. He also followed up by telling young men that they need to find someone that they like and share values with and propose! Haha… I definitely would encourage them to get married as long as they understood that love is not always a happy feeling… it is work and it is a decision but once you realize that you need to get married and have babies! He also said that, which cracked me up!
I can’t wait to read your next posts! Thanks! Sorry it’s so long!
Everyone keeps saying all these what ifs.. about Joe getting injured and so on. But one important thing I think that is being missed is that if she is truly praying and asking God for his wisdom he will show her and If he wants her to drop out of college he will surely take care of her! Yes what ifs might happen but obeying God is the most important. So the issue really isn’t wether its right or wrong for a person it’s Are they truly seeking God’s wisdom and then are they actually obeying it!
I would fully support them marrying. I would, as others said, ask her to please get a 2 year degree with what she does have, considering especially she can ALWAYS use it. I would also encourage her to know that she can finish her degree even during marriage. Harder? YES!!! If she is going to wrack up loans to get the degree she truly doesn’t want, then I would not encourage her toward that degree. If I was paying for her college degree I would make sure she truly does not want the degree and allow her to marry. If she decided to go back to school after marriage I would not pay for it.
Have a stroke. Seriously.
At 19 I thought I was in love. Fortunately in my house, dropping out of college and getting married was absolutely not an option and not worth bringing up. If my daughter truly doesn’t want to continue in college, I would suggest a year of traveling, volunteering, Americorps, working, or some other profitable pursuit other than marriage. 19 is simply too young, and dropping out of college is never, ever a good idea.
I did not get married until I was 28, and not to my college love, either(I actually married the brother of the girl who was my college roommate when I was 19 though he and I did not meet until I was 27). At that point I had three degrees and a solid career under my belt, as did he. We have never had financial concerns and were able to purchase nice house with a good down payent, pay for our vehicles, had health insurance, and I was far enough along in my career to be able to be flexible when my son was born 14 months after our wedding. My husband and I have a wonderful marriage, and daily we are watching our friends and relatives–“Christian” couples who grew up homeschooled and courted and did not pursue college but married young and struggled financially–divorce. We’ve watched several couples our age in the last few months divorce, people you never thought would since they had done everything “right.” And where are those women now? Struggling emotionally and financially since this was not something that had ever expected. We suspect that they were far too young to get married, had not had a change to know who they were or what they wanted and needed in a life partner, and struggled so much financially that it created a lot of burdens and stress on an already shaky marriage.
Our daughters, if we have any, will be highly encourged to pursue college or a vocation, and delay marriage until they are emotionally and financially ready.