Creation: The Blind Darwinist
A Sunday guest post by my brilliant husband, Gregg.
Every Sunday, my clever husband offers me a “day of rest” by taking over the homemaker duties here. His primary topic, the Biblical Truth of Creation vs. Darwinism, is a subject that has broad reaching scientific, social, and metaphysical implications. For believers and non-believers alike, the primary purpose is to present scientific, historical, logical, and/or sociological data in an empirical and defensible fashion, as much as possible written in layman’s terms, and in a format suitable for supplementing any homeschool curriculum whether you choose to believe the Biblical account — or secular guesses — about the origins of human life on earth.
Frameworks and Worldviews
It is fallacious to believe that facts speak for themselves and are therefore self-evident. Facts are always interpreted according to a framework and the framework is determined by one’s individual worldview. The framework behind the Darwinists’ interpretations is called Methodological Naturalism. Whether or not a Darwinist claims a belief in God is irrelevant to this framework. Darwinism depends upon a philosophical bias wherein it is assumed that things made themselves, that no divine intervention has ever happened (or could ever happen), and that God has not revealed knowledge about the past to mankind.
Darwinian Evolution is a deduction from the base assumptions of this framework. It is essentially the idea that things made themselves, then made themselves bigger and stronger and faster and smarter, and continue to do so today. It includes these unproven and unscientific ideas: nothing gave rise to something at an alleged ‘big bang,’ non-living matter gave rise to life, single-celled organisms gave rise to many-celled organisms, invertebrates gave rise to vertebrates, ape-like creatures gave rise to man, ultimately that non-intelligent and amoral matter gave rise to intelligence and morality, man’s yearnings gave rise to religions, etc.
Biblical believers are puzzled as to why Darwinists so completely reject the idea that we might have been created by a supreme being.
“Evolution [is] a theory universally accepted not because it can be proven by logically coherent evidence to be true, but because the only alternative, special creation, is clearly incredible.” Professor D.M.S. Watson, Darwinist apologist
In his pronouncement, Dr. Watson leaves the word “clearly” undefined. The answer to the puzzle is that it has never been a question of biased religious “creationists [sic.]” versus objective scientific Darwinists. Instead it is the beliefs of the Christian worldview versus the biases of the religion of Secular Humanism resulting in different interpretations of the same scientific facts.
One may think that a worldview can be intellectually set aside so that objective thought, analysis, and experimentation can occur, thus yielding valid, cogent, sound conclusions via the scientific process. Sadly, this is not the case. Darwinism corrupts the scientific process and inhibits logical thought.
The Darwinist Philosophical Bias: Pollution in the Mind’s Eye
This corruption is easily demonstrated, I believe, by expounding on what has become known as Paley’s Watchmaker argument, which is essentially a teleological argument. Back in 1802, William Paley argued that if one found a hypothetical watch in the middle of a hypothetical swamp, one would have no doubt that the watch was a created thing, that it was designed by a designer. He then went on to compare the watch the earth, and indeed the entire universe, describing just how much more highly specifically complex these things were than a simple watch and how very many more tool-marks of design they displayed.
In short, Paley argued that it is logically coherent to arrive at the valid, cogent, sound conclusion that should a thing bear the tool-marks of design, that it was therefore designed. At its heart, the conclusion of the argument is that DESIGN implies a DESIGNER.
Polluted Darwinist Criticisms of Paley’s Argument
Instead of refuting this conclusion, for the last 207 years, Darwinists have attempted to refute the specific premises of the argument. The three main fallacious criticisms against the premises are usually as follows:
1) Complex artifacts do not, in fact, require a designer, but can and do arise from “mindless” natural processes as in the “Infinite Monkey Theorem.”
2) The watchmaker is arguably a far more complex organism than the watch, and if complexity proves intelligent design, then the question arises: who designed such a complex designer? This is known as the “Who made God?” criticism.
3) The watch is a faulty analogy and not in any way analogous to man, the earth, galaxies, or the entire universe. This is known as the “false analogy” criticism.
The first thing you will notice, if you are a rigorously logical thinker, is that not one of these three primary criticisms refutes — or even comes close to addressing — the actual conclusion of Paley’s argument, that DESIGN implies a DESIGNER. This is because the conclusion is already known to be true. It is what is known as a tautology, which is similar to a scientific LAW in that it proves 100% true, 100% of the time.
Since the truth of the conclusion is already known, Darwinist have no choice but to address the premises in an attempt to refute the WORLDVIEW that led to the already proven conclusion. But how sound, how cogent, how valid are the criticisms? Not surprisingly, it turns out these criticisms are all fallacious.
Cleaning Up Polluted Thought
The Infinite Monkey Theorem is essentially restated by Richard Dawkins in his book, “The Blind Watchmaker” in which he designed a computer model in order to produce a single 6 word fragment out of Shakespeare via a random program generator. The theorem basically states that given infinite time, a hypothetical monkey (or infinite hypothetical monkeys) typing at random would eventually almost surely produce all of Shakespeare’s plays in order and without error.
The fallacies of this criticism are threefold. First, the universe — nor any living thing in it — is composed of infinity. The universe is only so many years old, the earth is only so many years old, and any living thing came about in a finite amount of time. Second, typing infinite amounts of randomness to achieve the goal of eventually resulting in the collected works of Shakespeare would always result in an INFINITE amount of waste that is NOT the collected works of Shakespeare. Simply observing the universe, one can see that there is very little waste. Thirdly, the “goal” of achieving the collected works of Shakespeare implies an intelligence that is able to discern when that goal has been achieved or even an a priori intelligence that has a goal in mind. If the premise is randomness, the argument is self-refuting, since randomness has no mind and therefore is unable to set goals or recognize when the goal has been met.
When Dawkins designed his computer model, he leaves out the fact that he DESIGNED the model in his argument. In order to have the model, there must first be an alphabet, a language, a frame of reference, and a target in mind that is intelligible as information: in his case, the phrase “to be or not to be” out of Shakespeare’s Hamlet. The Infinite Monkey Theorem’s premises to form the thrust of the critisim are weak in that a language, an alphabet, an an intelligence must already exist for the crtisism itself to be recongnized as valid. Thus we have a fallacy forming the the foundation of the very conclusion. This encompases all restatements and respins of the argument, such as Dawkins’ recent regurgitation in his Blind Watchmaker argument.
The “Who made God” critisim is fallacious in that it is non sequiter and the argument itself is vastly incomplete. It is a tautology that an infinite regress of causality is impossible. Therefore, let’s assume for the sake of argument that the premise of the “Who made God?” argument is valid, and that the creator of the universe is not an eternal and omnipotent being and himself had to have been created by a more powerful being. It is logical, therefore, that an even more powerful and more eternal being created THAT creator. Logically, THAT being was also created and so an even more powerful and more eternal being created that entity. And you logically chase that infinite chain of regress all the way back to that which Aristotle called the “prime mover” or that which Thomas Aquin called the “first cause” and you ultimatelly conclude that there must have been an eternal being of infinite power and infinite knowledge and THAT is whom we call God.
It follows that the original argument, that the god we reach at the end of that chain of causality is the God of the Bible and that He created everything in the beginning; that such a claim is sound, cogent, valid, and perfectly logical.
The “False Analogy” critisim is probably the most sound though also not strictly valid in terms of logic because it makes a strawman of Paley’s analogy. Essentially, the claim is that it is a faulty analogy to compare apples to oranges when a more valid analogy is to compare apples to apples. Unfortunately, there is only one universe so it is not possible to draw an analogy between this universe and another known universe. There is no other known universe. Therefore, one is forced to compare apples to oranges.
But to draw an analogy between an apple and an orange in that they are both seed bearing fruit is a sound analogy. An apple and an orange are both found on fruit trees and this is a sound analogy. In short, it is only when one claims that an apple and an orange are analogous in every possible way that a faulty analogy fallacy occurs.
Paley scrupulously does not argue that the watch is analogous to the entire universe in every possible aspect. To claim otherwise is a straw man. Instead, he restricts his analogy only to the single aspect that both his hypothetical watch and the known universe show the toolmarks of design.
New Pollution
David Hume may have been the first to offer a criticism of the conclusion of the teleological argument. He argued that for the design argument to be feasible, it must be true that order is only observed when they result from design. But order is observed regularly, resulting from presumably mindless processes like snowflake or crystal generation or soap bubbles. A similar objection is coined as the Mandelbrot Analogy. It relies on the observation that in rare cases some complex patterns and behaviors, such as those seen in fractals and chaotical systems, arise naturally from simple systems. Therefore, the order and arrangement of something is not a valid argument for the necessity of a designer.
The problem with the Hume and Mandelbrot Analogy criticism is that THEY create a false analogy. While “order” can arise in soap bubbles and fractals and snowflakes, there is no intelligence in that kind of order; no information, no highly specific complexity. Intelligence is only ever present in the form of information, and information relies on very specific highly complex levels of code (for lack of a better word) which requires both a sender and a receiver. The kind of order found in the collected works of Shakespeare (William Shakespeare = sender) which we read today (we = receivers) is orders of magnitude more specific and highly complex than the endlessly repeating patterns of “order” found in snowflakes, crystals, fractals, and so forth.
In some recent formulations of Paley’s argument usually restated by Intelligent Design theorists, the “tool-marks” or the characteristics marking design, is left implicit while in others it is specific complexity, or that something was clearly being designed for a purpose.
Again, rather than addressing the conclusion — that DESIGN implies a DESIGNER — Darwinists have attempted to refute the premises. They argue that “purpose” is undefined or that in rare cases specific complexity can arise through random processes.
As you can see, Darwinism corrupts the scientific process and pollutes logical thought.
The Truth
If you find something as simple as an arrowhead in your own backyard, even if you have never seen one before in your entire life, you can see by many obvious clues that it was designed. It bears toolmarks. It is specifically complex. There has never been observed in the history of history that such a thing can come about via randomness and chance.
If you study DNA, and learn as much about that code as did Francis S. Collins, the head of the Human Genome Project, you might safely conclude, as did Collins, that DNA is the “Language of God” and that it bears specific toolmarks of having been designed and, he believes, by God Himself.
Darwinists’ objectivity is polluted. Their logic centers and ability to observe the natural world are so corrupted by their philosophical bias that they can easily recognize the design in things like arrowheads, watches, Mount Rushmore, rubber balloons, or boxes with nails in them — they are blind to the tool-marks of design commonly found in living things like proteins, DNA molecules, the human eye, or the unborn.
Honestly, it makes me feel sad for them. They riducule the premises over and over stacking one fallacy atop another, while never facing the irrefutable conclusion. We bear the toolmarks of design. Therefore, we were designed and DESIGN implies a DESIGNER.
To restate the obvious, Darwinism depends upon a philosophical bias wherein it is assumed that things made themselves, that no divine intervention has ever happened (or could ever happen), and that God has not revealed knowledge about the past to mankind. It assumes that nothing is designed by a designer.
Ask yourself, how valid, how cogent, and how sound is that philosphical bias? Were we designed for a purpose, or did we make ourselves from non-living things for no purpose? Did our Designer inform us of events in the past, His special act of creation, or did we just appear by accident in the universe’s greatest ever stroke of fantastic luck?
When you think logically, you emulate the mind of God. Logic, therefore, leads only to the singular conclusion that God exists. The greatest scientists in the history of mankind: Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, Kelvin, Boyle, Dalton, Ramsay, Ray, Linnaeus, Mendel, Pasteur, Virchow, Agassiz, Steno, Woodward, Brewster, Buckland, Cuvier, Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Herschel, Maunder, Pascal, Leibnitz, Euler, and Francis S. Collins — all bear testimony to the toolmarks of our Designer. They all embraced logic and arrived at the only possible conclusion.
I commit to you that I will publish every single comment that meets this blog’s commenting criteria. You may want to review that criteria before adding your opinion here.
God Bless you and yours.
Gregg
Resources:
Additional Posts dealing with Creation and Darwinism
Since you mention Francis Collins, here are quotes from his book:
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“The study of genomes leads inexorably to the conclusion that we humans share a common ancestor with other living things.”…”This evidence alone does not, of course, prove a common ancestor; from a creationist perspective, such similarities could simply mean that God used successful design principles over and over again. As we shall see, however, and as was foreshadowed by the discussion of “silent” mutations in the protein-coding regions, the detailed study of genomes has rendered that interpretation virtually untenable-_not only about all other living things, but also about ourselves.”
(p.134 in “my copy of The Language of God”)
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“Unless one is willing to take the position that God has placed these decapitated AREs {ancient repetitive elements} in these pecise positions to confuse and mislead us, the conclusion of a common ancestor for humans and mice is virtually inescapable. This kind of recent genome data thus presents an overwhelming challenge to those who hold to the idea that all species were created ex nihilo.”
(p. 136-137 )
“The examples reported here from the study of genomes, plus others that could fill hundreds of books of this length, provide the kind of molecular support for the theory of evolution that has convinced virtually all working biologists that Darwin’s framework of variation and natural selection is unquestionably correct. In fact, for those like myself working in genetics, it is almost impossible to imagine correlating the vast amounts of data from the studies of genmes without the foundation of Darwin’s theory. ”
(p.141)
“…several vocal proponents, Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett stand out as articulate academics who expend considerable energies to explain and extend Darwinism, proclaiming that an acceptance of evolution in biology requires an acceptance of atheism in theology.” Francis S. Collins (p.161 in my copy of “The Language of God”)
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“The major and inescapable flaw of Dawkins’s claim that science demands atheism is that it goes beyond the evidence. If God is outside of nature, then science can neither prove nor disprove His existence.” Francis S. Collins (p.165 in my copy of “The Language of God”)
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(Speaking on C.S. Lewis’ explanation of the Resurrection of Christ) “Before I became a believer in God, this kind of logic seemed like utter nonsense. Now the crucifixion and resurrection emerged as the compelling solution to the gap that yawned between God and myself, a gap that could now be bridged by the person of Jesus Christ.” Francis S. Collins (p.223 in my copy of “The Language of God”)
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Do you know the resurrected Christ, hd? Do you know Him in the same way that I know Him? In the way that Collins knows him? In the way that He wants to know you?
I was raised as a Christian in the Methodist church; in that church evolution was accepted and Genesis was not viewed as literal. I think this is similar to Francis Collins’ beliefs about Genesis (although his beliefs are evangelical according to his book). My family was very serious about religion. Everyone I knew was Christian of some form. At that time, people I knew described atheists as angry twisted unhappy people, and I took that for granted (I didn’t know any actual person who was a nonbeliever). I totally believed everything that was taught in that church. I wouldn’t say I “knew” Christ, but I thought I did, thought I was communicating by prayer and being listened to. I worried about making choices that would make Christ unhappy (as I was told my choices might do), not because I worried about going to hell (that was not stressed in my church, and anyway I believed that because of Jesus I was going to heaven) but because the idea of making God unhappy was so distressing. That was the framework of my life when I was growing up.
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Then I stopped believing that anyone was actually listening or caring or present. At first I expected that I would find a way back to belief (which was a big loss for me, as was the loss of the idea I would be reunited with family members after death). But it didn’t happen. And after many years I can’t imagine ever believing those things again. So now I think of myself as a nonbeliever, atheist, or atheist/agnostic, depending on the definition of those words being used.
Because I remember how it felt to be a believer and how it felt to lose the comfort of that belief, and because I know smart, good people who are believers, I don’t personally like some of the specific ridicule against Christianity that I see on some of the atheist-related websites because it could be painful to believers. But at the same time, the idea of my believing those things again is so remote that I can’t imagine it ever happening. In times of my life that were scary and upsetting I did not find myself praying. (And even if I reverted to my old beliefs, they would not include a belief in literal Genesis.)
So the short answer to your questions is no.
On the theory of evolution, my common sense tells me if man evolved from the ape there would no longer be any apes left on earth. Enough said….
You said this:
…”The first thing you will notice, if you are a rigorously logical thinker, is that not one of these three primary criticisms refutes — or even comes close to addressing — the actual conclusion of Paley’s argument, that DESIGN implies a DESIGNER. This is because the conclusion is already known to be true. It is what is known as a tautology, which is similar to a scientific LAW in that it proves 100% true, 100% of the time.
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Since the truth of the conclusion is already known, Darwinist have no choice but to address the premises…”
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I have to say, I’m confused by this. What’s wrong with addressing the premises (whatever they are)? What’s the point of making a claim unless the premises are clear and agreed on, and unless the definitions of the words are clear?
In this case I think you are assuming that the word “designer” has to mean an intelligent entity with a goal in mind. But I think the word ‘designer’ could be substituted with a phrase, ‘designing process’ just as well.
If you mean the word ‘design’ to mean some kind of arrangement arived at by the processes of an intelligent, goal-driven entity, and the word ‘designer’ to mean an intelligent goal-driven entity, than I think it would be a tautology. But then you have to apply that to the natural world, and in order to do that, you have to make a connection between what we see in natural and the necessity of it having been arrnged by an intelligent goal-driven entity. That’s the point where I think people are evaluating the premises of the argument – how else can it be analyzed?
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(I did not go back and read what Paley had to say, so if parts of your argument are contained in his writings, I will have missed those parts.)
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I would like to point out that Dawkins’ computer program did not use the phrase “to be or not to be”, and that he was explicit in the purpose he had for writing that very simple program. It was not to show that infinite monkeys could produce Shakespeare randomly. It was a very simple example of how the non-random effect of selection could hugely reduce the length of time for reaching a pre-chosen set of letters. I think Dawkins tries to be precise in his writing, and he communicates his ideas not in a few words but in pages, chapters, or whole books.
Alice said this:
…”On the theory of evolution, my common sense tells me if man evolved from the ape there would no longer be any apes left on earth. Enough said….”
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Here is how I respond to that idea, and I hope it makes sense and actually fits with what people are thinking.
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The way I see this comment, Alice is saying that based on her understanding of evolutionary theory, evolution predicts something like this: there is a parent species. Over time, mutations occur which causes changes in that species. The mutations spread through the whole species, and after many many years, the animals of that species all have the accumulated new changes, which make them clearly different from their ancestors. All the ancestors have died out, and all the current members of the species have the new and different characteristics.
According to this idea of evolution, if we look at humans and say they evolved from an ancestral ape species, there would be no animals living now with the ancestral ape-like characteristics, and all the descendents would have the accumulated human characteristics.
…(sorry for the awkward wording.)
So according to that idea of evolution, Alice looks at humans, sees there are still apes, and her common sense or logic tells her that since there are still apes, humans could not have evolved from them.
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However that is not the only way evolutionary theory predicts that evolution can occur. There is an alternative, probably predicted to be the more common occurrence, which says that one population of apes can accumulate mutations while other populations of apes in that species remain essentially the same, or perhaps change in other ways.
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Here is an example which I’ve used before. Imagine a species of mice that become separated by a mostly uncrossable river. Because of the river there is very little breeding between the mice on one side of the river and the mice on the other. Mutations happening in the mouse population on the north of the river will rarely be spread to mice on the south side. If one side of the river has different environmental features, mice with some mutations will be selected for by that environment. Over time, the populations will diverge, and they can diverge to the point where each is a separate species, unable to reproduce with each other. The original mouse population on one side of the river may be mostly the same, while the new population on the other side has a different appearance. (This is not meant to be some kind of proof – it is an explanation for how evolutionary theory predicts that two species can evolve from one original species by way of a reproductive barrier).
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Once you know that evolutioanry theory does predict that several different species can evolve from an ancestral species, you can see that the theory of evolution does not predict that if humans evolved from apes, that there would be no more non-human apes. Quite the contrary – the theory of evolution says that it will be a common occurrence that an ancestral species might continue to exist essentially unchanged compared to a species that has branched off of it, and that there could be other species branching off which have other features.
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You still might think that evolution cannot happen for other reasons, but I hope you will see that the existence of both humans and apes is not a problem for evolutionary theory.
“In this case I think you are assuming that the word “designer” has to mean an intelligent entity with a goal in mind. But I think the word ‘designer’ could be substituted with a phrase, ‘designing process’ just as well.”
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Who designed the designing process? Logically, this is just moving the argument. Keep in mind, also, that natural processes do not have a mind, and therefore are unable to set goals or plan toward projects or perform complex logistics. All undirected processes can do is create crystals and soap bubbles and such.
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“It was a very simple example of how the non-random effect of selection could hugely reduce the length of time for reaching a pre-chosen set of letters. I think Dawkins tries to be precise in his writing, and he communicates his ideas not in a few words but in pages, chapters, or whole books.”
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There has to be an intelligence who pre-chooses what letters amount to the goal. Otherwise, the letters, no matter how ordered, may as well be part of the multitude of random background waste letters. As for trying to be precise, he makes words up and can’t stop talking about God and how much he thinks God is a bully and such. Far from precise or clear, in my opinion.
….”Who designed the designing process? Logically, this is just moving the argument. Keep in mind, also, that natural processes do not have a mind, and therefore are unable to set goals or plan toward projects or perform complex logistics. All undirected processes can do is create crystals and soap bubbles and such.”
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Well, this is where there’s a disagreement. It’s not that there’s polluted logic, but a disagreement. The evolutionary view would be that the designing process was an assortment of independent natural effects acting without minds, goals or plans – for instance natural selection and the chemical properties of matter.
(I’m not getting into whether the original chemical properties of matter were designed – if they were, it would seem that they were designed to have simple chemical interactive properties, not designing minds. Foor myself, of course, I do not think they were designed at all, but there is a limit to how far back in time etc. that we can investigate.)
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Dawkins did pick his goal sequence of letters. It was a primitive program and really says nothing directly about evolution, since the idea of evolution does not include a directed goal. I think Dawkins mentioned this. The program was an illustration of the idea that some selection greatly reduced the time needed to reach some predetermined state.
If you look at a protein with hundreds of amino acids and calculate the probability of its being assembled through random assortments of amino acids, you get a very small number implying that its production is very unlikely from chance. But to make that calculation you are assuming that particular protein is a goal and that the only way for that goal to be reached is by simple probability. This idea has nothing to do with what actually would happen in the natural world. Dawkins’ program also is not a model of the natural world- it just introduces into that probability calculation the idea that all combinations are not equally likely. Once you introduce some selection into the process, the time it takes to reach a given sequence is greatly reduced.
In Dawkins’ program there was a goal, which is okay because it was not meant to be a model of the actual world, any more than your probability calculations model the actual world. But in theories of actual abiogenesis and evolution there would be no goals. But in the idea of abiogenesis you would have chemical properties as selection agents.
LOL….this article is a waste of pixels…and time
Darwin 1
Creationism 0
again
keep trying…
If I could just go back in time, ok, I’m making a time machine.
Do you have children, and do you send them to schools, because I promise you that there is not one school on this country (USA) that does not teach Darwinism, and disconcerts the theories of Darwin. If we have the capability to detect evolution, learn of it, apply our what we discovered, and then gain more knowledge that provides us with even more intricacies in evolution, then this, to an average scientists, is an average day, and an average project, finding intricacies. Let me tell you this, has anyone that has prayed to God, or Jesus Christ ever experienced the majestic benevolence of God or in other words, a gift from god, or a prayer, or wish approved by god…NO! If they have, can they provide solid evidence, NO! If they have evidence can they verify that the evidence is true, NO! Yet science, is logical, and has evidence and reason behind everything.
I think that even the creationist believers can make sense of quasars and black holes and come to realize that they are in existence, but then they will reject that it is a matter of God’s creation, and then render the scientific existence as an undefined existence.
What if I told you that the first religion was Hinduism, would you believe me, would you believe me if I told you that all humans are technically born as Hindus, would you believe me if I told you that the religion of Hinduism is over 5000 years old? Of course not, because of the Christian faith, and the writings of the Bible, you would not.
This constant deviation from what is real and proven needs to end soon…
For those in my family, my friends, even Christian friends of mine, all believe in evolution.
Here is what I want from you, I want physical proof that vilifies the existence of evolution, that the world is only 4000 years old, not from a priest, not from a book, not from friends, or family, not from the internet, or any primary source, but something undefined that overrides our science. This is a common task that modern scientists undergo everyday, trying to find the invisible and sometimes impossible, yet they always find it.
Now, I think it is time, the creationists should try to render us some proof!
For those of you who may not know — JOHN here is also DARWIN of the previous comment. In my previous reply, I said, “Pretty much the only logical fallacy you missed was that of the Question Begging Epithet, but I’m sure there will be a Darwinist troll who makes up for your oversight shortly.”
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Thank you, Darwin/John, for so aptly demonstrating and validating my point.
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God Bless,
Gregg
A few observations. You found this site by doing a Google search looking for “non believers of Darwinsim” which paints a certain agenda on your part.
You claim the name “darwin” and your email is “imapownyou” which demonstrates not a willingness to debate in a logical, rational, reasoned manner, but rather a very obvious agenda.
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A simple internet search of the text of your comment reveals that you have copied and pasted portions of this very same comment in several other places on the web (trolling) which tells me you probably didn’t bother to actually read this post for its content. If you didn’t bother to even read it, that again demonstrates an unwillingness to debate in a logical, rational, reasoned manner.
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I am publishing your comment because it reveals numerous logical fallacies and the fact that you cannot debate your point of view in a logical, rational, reasoned manner is highly supportive of my point of view — so your comment is instructive in that way.
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In your opening parry, you said, “Do you have children, and do you send them to schools, because I promise you that there is not one school on this country (USA) that does not teach Darwinism, and disconcerts the theories of Darwin.”
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First, some grammar instruction: This sentence is an interrogative but you did not end it with proper punctuation. In your assertion that there is “not one school on this country (USA)” the prepositional phrase beginning with, “on” should actually be stated as “in this country” if speaking of the institution, unless you are speaking of the physical school houses, in which case you have committed the fallacy of reification. Schools do not teach. There are schools where notions and ideas are taught.
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I have to be honest and confess that I find your assertion that the theories of Darwin are “disconcerted” in schools quite funny. In fairness I would advise you to look up the definition of the word “disconcert” as I do not think it means what you think it means.
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disconcert — To upset the composure of; To bring into confusion; To frustrate, make go wrong. Disturb the composure of; unsettle, to make uncomfortable. To confuse or frustrate; to throw into confusion.
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Please pardon me for finding this amusing if it is the case that english is not your first language. Regardless, when you further troll this comment in whole or in part on some other site, you may wish to correct all of that in your opening line, or else be seen as less than educated at the elementary level.
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Finally — your assertion that every single school in the US teaches Darwinism is not proof, but rather commits the logical fallacy of Argumentum
ad Populum: appeal to the gallery, aka appeal to the masses.
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You said, “For those in my family, my friends, even Christian friends of mine, all believe in evolution.” . This also simply commits the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad Populum.
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You must realize that these kind of “everyone believes the earth is flat” statements above do not stand as evidence that the earth is really flat anymore than your everyone believes claims prove that nothing gave rise to something at an alleged ‘big bang,’ non-living matter gave rise to life, single-celled organisms gave rise to many-celled organisms, invertebrates gave rise to vertebrates, ape-like creatures gave rise to man, ultimately that non-intelligent and amoral matter gave rise to intelligence and morality, man’s yearnings gave rise to religions, etc. It takes more than “all my friends believe it” to prove something that remains unproven.
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You said, “If we have the capability to detect evolution, learn of it, apply our what we discovered, and then gain more knowledge that provides us with even more intricacies in evolution, then this, to an average scientists, is an average day, and an average project, finding intricacies.”
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You don’t really define the term “evolution” and so possibly commit the logical fallacy of equivocation. You also don’t really define the term science or “scientist” as the reality is that scientists whose discipline is primarily in the fields of operational science have no use whatsoever for origins or historical science. I say this to caution you not to commit the logical fallacy of equivocation or create a fallacy of a weak analogy between those two areas of science.
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You ask, “Let me tell you this, has anyone that has prayed to God, or Jesus Christ ever experienced the majestic benevolence of God or in other words, a gift from god, or a prayer, or wish approved by god…NO! If they have, can they provide solid evidence, NO! If they have evidence can they verify that the evidence is true, NO! Yet science, is logical, and has evidence and reason behind everything.”
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This appears to be a combination of a few fallacies. I take it you have never experienced the majestic benevolence of God as a result of prayer, etc. and further discount any personal testimonies that this is or may have been the case by any other person. Ultimately, you are personally ignorant of how God operates as a result. Your personal ignorance of these types of phenomenon offered as “proof” that they never occur amounts to an Argumentum Ad Ignorantiam (faulty appeal to ignorance) and doesn’t prove or disprove their possibility.
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By applying your Argumentum Ad Ignorantiam to everyone who has ever lived for all of recorded human history, you have compounded your faulty appeal to ignorance into a Fallacy of Composition, wherein you assume that you are perfectly representative of the entire human race based on your little, individual opinion. Just an observation, that is an entirely solipsistic and unsound personal philosophy.
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By then comparing the supernatural mechanics of prayer to “science” you possibly commit the fallacy of a weak analogy really depending upon what you mean by your use of the word “science.” Without properly defining that term, you commit the logical fallacy of equivocation which, depending upon your comparison, may be a very weak analogy since certain aspects of science are clearly not analogous with prayer. Define “science” more rigorously to overcome these fallacies.
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You said, “What if I told you that the first religion was Hinduism, would you believe me, would you believe me if I told you that all humans are technically born as Hindus, would you believe me if I told you that the religion of Hinduism is over 5000 years old? Of course not, because of the Christian faith, and the writings of the Bible, you would not.”
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Actually, I would not accept many parts of that truth claim based on documented historical evidence. Just as the truth claim that sanskrit is the oldest written language on earth was refuted (Chinese is the oldest written language) in the last century, so many other “We were FIRST” claims of this nature with which actual history disagrees must be set aside as unreliable or unverifiable at best, and likely patently false at worst — the product of a fundamentalism that surpasses an interest in what is really true and really proven and really real.
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You said, “This constant deviation from what is real and proven needs to end soon…”
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I could not agree more.
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You said, “Here is what I want from you, I want physical proof that vilifies the existence of evolution, that the world is only 4000 years old, not from a priest, not from a book, not from friends, or family, not from the internet, or any primary source, but something undefined that overrides our science. This is a common task that modern scientists undergo everyday, trying to find the invisible and sometimes impossible, yet they always find it. Now, I think it is time, the creationists [sic.] should try to render us some proof!
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For the record, not even the most ardent young earth creationist claims that the earth is 4000 years old. That is a complete straw man fallacy.
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Your assertion that scientists “always” find answers is simply a false claim. As a premise for any conclusion this instantly makes your argument unsound and your conclusions unreliable.
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In whole, though, your request that I produce proof that disproves (vilifies) Darwinism is called “shifting the burden of proof.”
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If you were to make the unlikely claim that the earth really is flat after all, you would not logically ask me to get busy disproving your unlikely claim. That would shift the burden of proof. The burden of proof for any outlandish truth claim is firmly the purview of the person who claims the silly idea to be true — just as is the case with Darwinism.
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Please allow me to sincerely thank you for your comment. I do not think I could have constructed a more concise and summarized collection of the logical fallacies so often employed by Darwinists in making the case for Darwinian evolution. I invite you to comment again as often as you like in the future. I have rarely seen such a complete display of a near total absence of both logic and rigorous reason in the guise of logical and reasoned debate.
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Pretty much the only logical fallacy you missed was that of the Question Begging Epithet, but I’m sure there will be a Darwinist troll who makes up for your oversight shortly.
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God Bless,
Gregg
Ha! The last comment had me rolling. I never saw someone picked to pieces like that before. Broke every logical fallacy in the book – priceless!
People will believe whatever they want to believe. The way in which one perceives the world is more important than reality, since the reality one experiences is filtered through one’s perception, or frame of mind, or philosophical framework, or whatever you wish to call it. People who are predisposed to believe in God or gods will find it easy to believe in creation, intelligent design, or even evolution, as long as they can fit it into their philosophical framework. Those who do not believe in a deity are more inclined to view the creation and the operation of the universe as a process that regulates itself.
As a Muslim, and as an engineer, I see science as a chronicle of man’s attempt to understand the world. I believe the world to be a great enigma, and the more we attempt to solve the mystery of the origin of the universe and how it operates, with all of its physics, chemistry, biology, etc, the closer it brings us to the Creator. Personally, I agree with Paley’s Watchmaker argument that the design leads to the designer. The Qur’an, which was revealed over 1,400 years ago, makes reference to physical phenomena such as the boundary between fresh water and salt water, how mountains act like “pegs” on the earth, how hail forms lightning, etc. To me, these are signs of the Creator, made manifest to those who reflect and do not discount the possibility that a Creator may exist. To someone else, they may believe the Qur’an to be false to begin with, and may furthermore believe an alternate explanation for the origins of the universe and how it operates, and that explanation my very well exclude the existence of any Deity, or it may be explained by a multiple deities (like the Greeks). At the end of the day, people will believe whatever they want to believe. I like to explore my beliefs and learn about others, and I sincerely hope that we all use this intellectual exercise to cultivate our understanding of our world without creating enmity between ourselves. Gregg, I thank you for posting this article. It made for some good reading today. It is healthy for us to engage each other constructively (read as without trolling), and I thank you for presenting me the opportunity to expand my horizons.